In this episode we are covering a very important discernment discussion on a popular couple who is deceiving so many people around the world. Their names are John and Lisa Bevere, and Michelle Lesley recently sat down with our good friend Dave Jenkins on his podcast called Contending for the Word to talk about why you shouldn’t be following these false teachers. Dave has graciously allowed us to bring this episode to our audience because many women follow the Beveres.
What You’ll Hear on This Episode
- Concerns about John’s understanding of biblical repentance
- What biblical repentance entails and means for the non-Christian and the Christian.
- The dangers of deliverance ministry and why this teaching is so concerning.
- The dangers of “legal rights” and the security the Christian has because of Christ.
Resources:
Leaving the NAR Church: Dylan’s story – Amy Spreeman – Berean Research
Transcripts are available at our YouTube channel and on the Apple Podcasts app.
Thank you, bless you and Walk Worthy!
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Agreed, but as to what the Bible states, have you guys confronted them? Showed them via scripture the mistakes made?
Hi Ben- Please see #1 here and listen to our episode “But did you go to him in private?” A look at Matthew 18.
I have hears very different messages from the Bevere’s than what you presented as well as interpreting them very differently. I do, however, appreciate your message as there are many false gospels out there that have been very deceptive hurting the church.
Hi Dawn- Thank you for your kind words. Yes there certainly are, and the Beveres are in that group. I have recently written an article that goes into far more detail about the Beveres and their heresy. (You can find it here.) It’s important to remember that Scripture – not our opinions or interpretations – determines whether or not someone is a heretic (and I’m using that term biblically, not in a haphazard or exaggerating way). And according to Scripture, the Beveres are heretics with whom Christians who want to be obedient to God’s Word should have nothing to do.
I came across this podcast as I have been searching for information about John Bevere. I have looked into the teachings of some of his books and have read part of his blog. I then proceeded to look for those who have issue with him to see what their challenges to John Bevere and his teachings are. My quick conclusion is as follows:
Michelle and Dave are lacking discernment and obviously have no experience with real spiritual warfare and the leading of the Holy Spirit. God does speak outside of Scripture to those who seek to hear Him and who quiet themselves to hear His voice, with caveats as to how to discern His voice. Demonic entities cannot possess a Christian, but they can attach themselves to Christians through the things that we do, the people that we associate with and the places that we go, and they need to be removed through the proclamation of the Name of Jesus and claiming authority over the demons that have attached themselves to Christians. And God gives his people visions, even shared visions; I have witnessed it personally.
There is just far too much to cover for me to try to do so in this comments section, but it sounds to me like Michelle and Dave are living empty lives of walking the Christian walk, working in their own power, while lacking the leading and guidance of the Holy Spirit. I recognize this because this is the same way that I walked for most of my life until God showed me that there is a better way.
I started listening to this podcast unsure of what I thought about John Bevere and his teachings; I am leaving this podcast, unfinished, understanding that those who are blindly groping about in their faith walk thinking that they are capable of leading the blind (Michelle and Dave) are in opposition to John Bevere; that inclines me towards John, not away from him.
I fully expect this comment to not get published in order to protect the ‘ministries’ of Michelle, Amy and Dave.
Chris, I’m publishing this comment, not in response to your false accusations and attempt at reverse psychology, but because I care about you and want to try to help. It is clear from your comments that you, like the Beveres, have been deceived by New Apostolic Reformation heresy, which is why you side with them over and against Scripture. I pray that the Lord will open your eyes to the truth of His Word.
If you’d like some help getting out of the deception you’re in, may I humbly suggest:
1. Go to our Good News! tab and carefully and prayerfully go through the materials there to make absolutely sure you’ve repented of your sin and believed the biblical gospel.
2. Find a doctrinally sound church to join.
3. These episodes will give you a biblical understanding of the false doctrines you’ve mentioned/evidenced:
What is the New Apostolic Reformation?
Our multiple episodes on discernment will help you understand how the Bible defines and describes discernment and how to practice it.
God Doesn’t Whisper and God Doesn’t Whisper to Me, Either
Our multiple episodes on the sufficiency of Scripture will help you understand what God says about how He speaks to us.
For a biblical understanding of demon possession and deliverance ministry, we would refer you to the episodes that deal with this topic from our friends Justin Peters, Chris Rosebrough, Doreen Virtue, and Dawn Hill.
If the Lord graciously opens your eyes and you have genuine questions about repenting and finding doctrinally sound teaching, you’re more than welcome to comment again, and we will be glad to try and help. But, out of obedience to Matthew 7:6, we will not publish or answer any further argumentative comments or comments advocating for false doctrine or false teachers. I’ve taken a moment to pray for you.♥️
Thank you for sharing this information & doing your best to kindly present it. I had to pray about this first & even before I write this comment, I prayed that the Holy Spirit would be the one typing instead of me & my own heart’s desires. Therefore, I ask this in all the love & respect in the world: What are the “evidences/fruits of the spirit” that you can show us to prove that we can or should trust you, Michelle, &/or Dave to be the “rightful” judge & jury of another brother & sister in Christ’ “entire” ministry (or others out there)? Also is your ministry, theology, & interpretation of Scripture “without error” 100%?
Unfortunately & in reality, none of us who don’t personally know you or actually “live with the three of you,” can get the LIVE & RAW experience or see the “truths & proofs” of the “fruits” in your lives, walk in faith, or ministries, or even truths in your theology. If one day on the judgment throne of God you all have proven to habe lived a sinless/blameless lives outside of the grace & mercy of our LORD Jesus Christ, then I stand corrected.
Until then, you can send me all the links you want to “try” to prove your credibility or that you three are somehow “better” than the Beveres’ OR any other ministries, but all that will do is tell me one thing: You, Michelle, & Dave… though I DO believe you all mean well & have the passion for the Body of Christ in your own respective ways… yet in condemning others, you are being more “part of the issue,” not the solution. And in focusing (even doubling, tripling down on) the errors of others, instead of focusing/spending more time on teaching & proclaiming what IS “truth” (or at least, truth as you three see fit), you are preaching a Governmental/Pharisees-like doctrine in general.
I’ve truly listened to this podcast & the other supporting podcasts listed/mentioned in its entirety and pondered upon all of its viewpoints. To me it sounds more like a “passive-aggressive personal agenda,” wrapped in eloquent speeches (much like those/the Beveres who you accuse to be in error!) and it makes me wonder: “what “personal harm” did the Beveres’ do to you all & have you all “forgiven” them yet?” Don’t get me wrong, in any of this, comment I am NOT saying the Beveres’ have it all figured out either, nor am I defending them in particular. All I’m defending & trying to point out is RIGHTEOUSNESS across the board in general (but I’m sure I, myself have “errors” in my writings here, as anyone else would in their efforts to explain all this or about anything else in the world).
At the end of the day, we ALL should realized that NONE of us can have a 100% error-free ministry, or interpretation of scripture, or way of living-out the “fruits of the spirit,” simply because of our limited understanding & imperfect flesh that currently lives in an imperfect world’s system. So instead of focusing on pointing fingers at each-other, how about we focus on ENCOURAGING each-other more toward JESUS Himself & spreading the Simple Truths of the gospel that even a 5 year old can understand.
Not just through our own rendering of Scriptural integrity, but more through our DAILY living/lifestyle—embodying the Fruits of the Spirit to others directly & personally… everywhere we go & to everyone we encounter… as THAT IS our “Great Commission” that Jesus has assigned to the church. Not to mention, Jesus’ teachings on forgiving others & loving our “enemies” & praying for those who persecute us.
And again, with all the Love & Respect in the world I’d like to remind us all of this: WE ARE ALL ARE HUMANS LIVING WITH IMPERFECT BODIES/MIND, IN AN IMPERFECT WORLD & “NONE” OF US GETS IT 100% CORRECT WHEN IT COMES TO INTERPRETATION or THEOLOGY OF SCRIPTURE! IF you actually know how to read & speak Ancient Hebrew fluently & read/study the “original” scrolls of Scripture day & night for ALL of your lives; NOT from “translations” that have been proving to be full of contextual & cultural errors in itself, perhaps you would THEN be the closest out of any of us to getting it 90% right.. but even so, we need to be DOERS of the Word, not just readers or scholars of the Word.
EVERY ONE, every ministries, & in some parts or times in their ministry, as long as we are still living here on Earth before Jesus’ 2nd coming… WILL get it wrong & will continue to until Kingdom come. It doesn’t mean we should start calling-out or worse, condemning each & everyone of them, then label them “Heretics” at their times of weaknesses or ignorance (or perhaps, at times of just mis-interpretation of their intent from our part). That would just make YOU “no better” than the Pharisees who called Jesus the same names & labelings! And remember Scripture also warns us of our “tongues” & what we declare with our words.. we MUST be very careful in judging using “name-calling/labelling” others.. less we be judged ourselves.
Instead, we should PRAY for them to soon see the light of truth &/or pray for God/The Holy Spirit to correct their errors..not putting our own efforts to defaming them. Better yet, let’s pray more for OUR own hearts to not be deceived, not just by them or their errors, but from our own heart’s deceitfulness, as Scripture also declared that “the heart is deceitful above ALL things & desperately wicked, who can know it?” – Jeremiah 17:9. Notice it doesn’t say.. just the hearts of some who you see as heretics, etc.. but “THE HEART”/ALL OUR HEARTS!
Moreover, Jesus IS the ONE & ONLY “High-Priest” whose “doctrine” we should be studying & focus on in our own solitude with Him/the Holy Spirit, because getting that DIRECT download of revelation from the Holy Spirit is the BEST way to getting to know Christ & His individualized purposes in our lives. Please talk about THAT more. Thank you for reading this far & for listening.
May the God of Israel Bless you all indeed, and expand your territory (of influence, of ministry, in Love), and may His hand be upon you all, and protect you from the evil one.. so that you may not “cause pain.” – Prayer of Jabez (1 Chron. 4:10)